Das Bounce is the kind of thing you can refute

Edited Devchat Log

Mgnat: Will we need a plot of land to put a 'factory' on
Mgnat: ?
Stewart: Mgant: yes, the plots are called "lots"
Eric: Mgnat, yes, a factory will occupy one "lot"
Mgnat: ok, cool
Stewart: just forget about the "p"
Mgnat: he he
L`Au-Delà: Will the factories give you an indication that you treat them well?
Stewart: L`Au: yeah, there will be visual feedback about the state of the factory
maia: Will your skill affect your factories' production?
Wintermute: skill doesn't effect production
fluorescence: Do you have to own a lot to create a factory on it? And can you own multiple lots?
Stewart: You don't have to own a lot to plant something on it, since there can be public lots, but you can't plant a factory on a lot owned by someone else
Stewart: And you can own multiple lots
Eric: There will be what, 8 lots per hub stew?
Stewart: (And, to an old question: yes, 8 lots per hub)
striatic: can factories be owned communally?
Stewart: And factories aren't really owned by anyone: only the lots are owned
steve: are there environmental laws for the factories?
Wintermute: we will model pollution in version 3.0
L`Au-Delà: can lots be owned by a group?
Wintermute: grups don't own (yet)
Eric: Group wnership is orobably not in version one,
Stewart: But group ownership is something that we will work on later
nerochiaro: what about the fact that one can't "camp" on a factory and wait to collect resources as they spawn ?
Wintermute: if you can get to the lot.. you can pick from the factory
GreyArea: but if a factory is on a private lot, does that prevent others from swiping stuff from it?
Stewart: GreyArea: yes
zerth: will there be "weed" factories that supplant useful factories, like dandelions:)
Stewart: Zerth - good question: I don't think we'd thought of that before
Stewart: could be :)
L`Au-Delà: Can I protect my factory so someone is not feeding it bad stuff when I am away?
Wintermute: you can close your hub off
Wintermute: so others can't tamper with htem
Wintermute: them..
fluorescence: If you own a lot, will you be able to choose whether it's private or not?
Wintermute: actually.. we don't have the concept of lot locking yet
Wintermute: but it could mimic building locking
Wintermute: lock = permission list
GreyArea: Kowh's question is interesting, will "factories" produce seeds?
Wintermute: yes.. rarely
striatic: will some factories not need much maintenance at all? but maybe not produce much? .. kinda' like a raspberry bush at the side of a road? Maybe even occur naturally?
fluorescence: Will different factories need different levels of maitenance?
georgie parker: fluorescence - different factories will have different requirements for maintenance
striatic: i guess my question is if there will be any 'naturally occuring' factories .. like wild growth.
Stewart: Striatic: yes to naturally occuing factories
Stewart: And they [factories] will occur naturally, and some will be growing in public areas
Emily: will sad factories produce lower-quality stuffs?
Wintermute: factories will always produce something.. even when sad
Wintermute: just not that often
Wintermute: emily: sad factories will produce fewer items / time period
L`Au-Delà: What will be the probability of a seed?
Wintermute: low
Wintermute: .01%?
L`Au-Delà: Can we cross pollenize factories?
Wintermute: no breeding...
striatic: can you sell a factory to someone else/
Wintermute: you can sell the lot the factory is on
nerochiaro: are you planning to have "tuning" period when you will adjust factories to make sure that they don't produce too much and throw all the game economy out of balance ?
Stewart: nerochiaro - yes, we call that "beta" ;)
Eric: GNE will be one big tuning period :)
Kowh: Can you feed factories anything, and only some of them have good or bad effects? Or only feed them things that have good or bad effects?
Wintermute: kowh: you can feed them anything
Wintermute: kowh: but only 1 type of item will make them happy
Wintermute: we may expand that 1 to many.. later
striatic: can there be a charlie chaplin item, and if i stick him in a factory he goes whizzing around all the gears?
Wintermute: striatic: nope...
Wintermute: unless you draw it :)
striatic: the factory goes with the lot then?
Wintermute: 1 factory per lot for now
L`Au-Delà: How do you know what is good for a factory?
Eric: l au: trial and error
Eric: and also common sense.
Eric: items will ahve alignments with a pantheon of "gods"
Eric: and so will factories.
Eric: so it wwill make some sense.
Eric: and some of it will make sense in a crazy kind of way.
Kowh: L'Au: Trial, error, and hearsay. I'm sure some people will come up with care and feeding manuals. :)
striatic: could you explain these 'alignments'?
Stewart: striatic: later, later :)
Stewart: Striatic: Gods, shrines, etc.: Nov 25 - http://gne.net/features/devchat.gne
fluorescence: Can a factory be removed at all?
Wintermute: factories cannot be removed..
Wintermute: but if you built a house on top of one.. it would "go away"
striatic: is there a spectrum of things that are good for a factory - some 'more good' than others?
Kowh: Will everything have an effect?
Twisted Mysitc: Can you feed them things with alternate effectes, IE Purple water to make the apples Purple
Wintermute: there is only a 1 to 1 ratio of factory to good food right now
zerth: so the harvest will be a combination of the factory's freshness, your freshness, and its recent diet?
Eric: zerth, that is the idea.
Mgnat: Is there going to be a base input into the factory system? Say water or energy.
Stewart: Mgnat - what do you mean by base input?
Stewart: Will water be good for all factories?
Stewart: (etc)?
Mgnat: Something that is at the bottom. One factory might produce something good for another, but in the end there is one base input. A bottom to the factory tree.
Stewart: Mgant - ah, in that case, no - it'll be fairly chaotic and circular
Stewart: at least, it is not *designed* with one base input in mind
striatic: ooh .. i could hire someone to work in my factory right? so i can spend all day chasing people with marshmallow daggers?
Stewart: Striatic, yes :)
zerth: any benefits from having them in a particular lot/hub? i.e. less pollution/better
zerth: *fill in locational type resource*
Wintermute: zerth: not yet
Wintermute: any factory can be planted in any place (currently)
fluorescence: Will hubs have properties, like cement ground or smoggy air, etc?
Eric: fluoresence: yes, to an extent. there will at least be a terrain type.
devjoe: so I can't staff a car factory with robots and feed it steel?
Stewart: devjoe - you could, in a sense - just that you don't staff it yourself
fluorescence: Will there be factories that can make something out of raw materials, if you supply it the raw materials /as well/ as whatever it needs to run?
Wintermute: they are only "seed" based right now
Stewart: Flour: for raw materials, those factories will be called "other players"
Mgnat: What external supply will be input into the system. Seeds?
Wintermute: the devs :)
Wintermute: initially
Wintermute: to bootstrap the thing
striatic: what about the commerce aspect ..
striatic: instead of trading actual raw goods, can i trade in access to the factory?
Stewart: striatic: there won't be 'contracts' in code that will be flexible enough to handle that, but you can make whatever arrangements you want with the other players :)
devjoe: so how would I go about creating a new type of item? Once I have developed appropriate skill to do so, of course.
Wintermute: devjoe: ask us after we launch :)
Stewart: devjoe: as Winter said - there will be an 'inventor' class, but that comes way later
Wintermute: we are trying canned objects and making pathways to start...
Wintermute: and see how that all works before we add more new templates to the system
Kowh: A vending machine style store would be useful to sell these raw materials, but thats unrelated to factories.
Stewart: Kowh: the player-run stores will be like vending machines
Wintermute: you stock them with what you want.. and set the sale prices
Kowh: You'd put items in, and prices for them.
Kowh: Get out money if players buy from them.
striatic: like i lock the baker out of my orchard if they don't pay me every week?
Wintermute: striatic: you can let whoever you want to use your factory.. if you own the lot it is on
Mgnat: vending machine run by the devs?
Wintermute: mgnat: vending machines run by the players
fluorescence: Can factories be set so that someone has to give the factory some good feul before they can take anything from it?
fluorescence: So that somebody can't take all the materials when somebody else has put in lots of time feuling their creation
Wintermute: flourescence: if a factory is very sad.. there is still a chance you can get items out of it.. but the chance is lower
Kowh: Flu: That would fall under restricted access. Don't let people who'd do bad things have access to it. ;)
striatic: will the factory keep a running count or log of everything it has produced in its history?
Wintermute: striatic: it might keep an internal log for us :)
striatic: aw .. just for you?
striatic: but i want a counter on my website that says 'over 1 billion served' :)
Wintermute: it will certainly count internally how many things it has produced
Wintermute: because that is what is used for when it dies
L`Au-Delà: Will the factory produce multiple types of items or only one? Will the type of item vary depending on the fuel?
Wintermute: only 1 type for now
Wintermute: apple tree... makes apples...
L`Au-Delà: Will you know what type of tree is coming from a seed or is it random?
Wintermute: the seed will explain what it is.. like "an apple tree seed"
striatic: could be a cool johnny appleseed character class? plant and move along .. :)
devjoe: seems like there certainly could be, striatic.
devjoe: if he was really good at planting trees, other people might even pay him to plat trees on their land.
Wintermute: a factory will rarely produce a seed to make another of itself
Eric: How many factory types will there be? Will all items come from factories?
Wintermute: "raw goods" will come from factories.. and most compound or complex items will come from combining raw goods
maia: Could some people be say, gardeners, that are payed to take care of many factories?
striatic: maia: yes.
Wintermute: the gardener class might have more skill at getting items out of factories
devjoe: if each player can only pick a limited amount from a tree in a given time, I can well imagine that farmers would hire other people to help pick more stuff from their trees.
Wintermute: devjoe: certainly
devjoe: And some people might well make a living servicing many factories that way.
Kowh: Will planting a seed have a 100% chance of producing a factory?
Kowh: If not, you could hire a gardener to gain a better chance of a seed growing.
Wintermute: yes for the gardener
Wintermute: 100%
Wintermute: only gardeners can plant seeds though
striatic: how do you get a seed if you don't already have a factory?
Wintermute: we seed the game with seeds
georgie parker: buy one ?
Stewart: striatic: from public factories, or, yes: buy one
Stewart: (from someone else who got it from a public factory that the dev manually inserted)
fluorescence: if someone with less skill plants a factory, can it have a lower efficiency level than if someone with more skill were to plant a factory of the same type?
Wintermute: gardening skill will allow you to plant higher level factories
Wintermute: there won't be weaker or strong factories
Stewart: Flour: to clarify, if someone with less skill plants it, it will do the same as if someone with a higher skill rating plants it
Stewart: but, some people will not have enough skill to plant certain things
L`Au-Delà: What is the shelf life of a seed?
Wintermute: the same shelf life as gne
Emily: forever and ever and ever...
georgie parker: seed doesn't necessarily mean something organic to plant in the ground...
L`Au-Delà: So I can hog seeds and sell them later?
Mgnat: corner the apple tree market?
Mgnat: by cornering the seeds?
striatic: hoard seeds and then regulate supply?
Wintermute: I suspect seeds will be very high priced :)
striatic: an idea - might be interesting to see what happens if you allow chopping down trees for some short term gain.
Kowh: More short term production for less to none later production?
Stewart: may-ay-be
striatic: what about people?
striatic: if they like one factory most and all only plant the same factory and create an imbalance?
Mgnat: so a factory on a public lot will be open to poaching?
Wintermute: yes mgnat
greywolf: I missed most of this so if this was already covered I'm sorry, will the factories produce at least one seed before they die?
Wintermute: greywolf: since it is based on a probability function.. it might not produce a seed
Kowh: Will we be able to make seeds through recipies, i.e. combine seeds to make a different seed?
Wintermute: seeds only come from factories... and devs
Wintermute: so we can cheat
greywolf: and is the life span [of a factory] going to be short or long?
Wintermute: it will be based on how many items it has produced
Wintermute: we might set them at say... 1 million
fluorescence: Does a dead factory just take up a lot untill somebody builds something over it?
Wintermute: nope... it poofs
Wintermute: you get a nice fresh lot back
striatic: not trees falling over and fertilizing the ground ?
striatic: or old factories seeping poison into the earth?
Wintermute: striatic: you can imagine that yes
L`Au-Delà: When can we expect to play with those factories.
Wintermute: after items and the map
Stewart: L`au - yep, we need the map first
Wintermute: so we have a place to put them
devjoe: when will we get the map?
fluorescence: What's the approximate time we're looking at before we have a map?
Wintermute: after items
Emily: and items will be ready...
Eric: how about "when the time is right"
greywolf: 1 last question, will it take a long time for the factories to produce or will it be immediate?
Wintermute: greywolf: they start pumping right away
Wintermute: greywolf: assuming you pick them
Eric: You have to ineract with a factory to get the goods, wolf.
Wintermute: like you "pick" the apple tree and it might give you an apple
striatic: any factories that can co-exist with houses?
striatic: like backyard garden?
Stewart: straitic: still undecided
Wintermute: maybe....
fluorescence: Maybe two lots could be annexed together, and one lot could be a yard?
fluorescence: maybe they could be sold as packages then
Stewart: it'd be cool, but for various reasons it is overcomplicated
Kowh: Player owned zones, like in some MUs?
Stewart: Kowh: there are 'political' entities - thnk towns, villages, cities, etc.
Kowh: I meant zone in the MUD sense, just a collection of rooms, i.e. a house of many rooms.
Stewart: Oh, yes - there will be houses of many rooms
Wintermute: there is a dev chat log about polilitcal stuff
Stewart: The leader of a town might also be the leader of a group and make that town a group-only place
Stewart: but, if the players make the arrangements among themselves, and trust each other enough, they can make it work just as if the group owns a whole town
striatic: so maybe have communally owned factories that way?
striatic: org owns a hub, hub is 'org only' and contains a public factory?
Wintermute: public lots/hubs cannot be closed
Stewart: We are using "public" in the sense of "controlled by the GNE public lands trust" or something
Stewart: "public factory" just means a factory on a public lot
Wintermute: public means owned by the devs in a sense
Stewart: no one can restrict access, etc.
Mgnat: but I think maybe comunity factory
Mgnat: on a private lot in a hub owned by and org
fluorescence: Can private lots be opened though?
Stewart: Flour: you can change the settings of any lockable area any time you want (i.e., turn it on or off)
Stewart: Yes
Eric: flour, private hubs can be unresitricted, but that would not make them public in the sense that we are using the term.
striatic: we were discussing in GNEwbie Boogie - trying to set up factories through the ORg that only memebers could use - will that be at all possible?
Stewart: Sorry - yes, striatic - yes to only members can use it -- but again not formally, in the system, as part of the code
Wintermute: but if some players in an org owned a lot .. they could control it on behalf of the org
Stewart: that is an arragement that players have to come to themselves
fluorescence: Okay, so public hubs can not be made private, but private hubs can be made public right?
Wintermute: you might be able to donate private land to the public trust
Wintermute: but that would be a 1 way transaction
striatic: how would you lock non memebers out?
Wintermute: you could lock all.. but people you assign to a list
Wintermute: such as all your best buddies
Wintermute: or all members of org x
Kowh: Some MU*s allow locking to a guild, or locking to "keys".
Wintermute: we aren't going to have keys
Wintermute: or locks... just permissions lists
Kowh: Could you lock to a org/circle, instead of just a list of people?
Kowh: A list of people would require maintenance...
striatic: i think it would be usefull to automate the permission list so you could set the list to include certain orgs or circle.
Stewart: Striatic: yes, by specific people OR contacts OR groups
Mgnat: separate permision lists for the same land depending on if you are on it or not would be nice
Stewart: Mgant - we had something like that in the prototype
greywolf: if it's like it was before, you could just give someone permission once to enter your house but that didin't mean they could come and go as they wished
Wintermute: greywolf: it will mean it in the big game... no "knocking"
Stewart: in the prototype: if *I* count *you* as a friend, then you can enter my house whenver you want
Stewart: it won't be that simple anymore though
Wintermute: but you can make your house more secure than before
Wintermute: you can have private rooms.. (like the closet)
fluorescence: Eric- Right. By making a private hub public though, I meant that you could unlock it so that people could come through at their whim, as opposed to not letting anybody in
Eric: right flour, a private property can be public in that sense, in the sense that it is unlocked and accessible to the public.
Wintermute: you can leave your front door open :)
Kowh: Does contacts lock have granulatiry, i.e. only friends and above?
Wintermute: yes kowh
striatic: can you have a banned list?
striatic: like, "everyone in group x allowed, except player y and d" ?
Wintermute: you could have a locked out list
Stewart: striatic: yes - "only this group" or "not this group" or "not this person"
Stewart: it'll get complicated ....
Mgnat: like access lists on a firewall?
Stewart: yes, and won't that be fun to administer?
Kowh: Some MUDs have a random teleport spell for bored people. Randomly teleport to any room in the MUD. :)
Wintermute: we'll have a teleporter....
Wintermute: but it's limited to "known" locations..
Wintermute: but I'll save that for another chat
Stewart: teleporting will be expensive

This is very rudimentary. I have gone through and tried to match the questions with the answers. I also edited out alot of coments for the moment. Please coment on it. I need help deciding how this should look and what else might be included.

as Mgnat said on October 30, 2003 12:31 PM | Comments (1)

a goddess?

So I log on to the Game Neverending site, click to join chat. This is maybe the second, third time that I’ve logged on. I come in, people say hi, I add a few new acquaintances. After a while, someone, maybe Tref, jokes about building me a shrine.

Shrine, eh? I decide to take this and run with it. I’ll be a goddess! And I’ll heal people, in more ways than one ;). It’ll be fun! I even start an org dedicated to my worship. Xylia and ravingoak are co-goddesses, and we get two or three followers and even a temple wench. Excellent.

The next time I log on, I play the goddess role to the hilt. Telling everyone to join my cult (spamming now that I look back on it), offering to “commune” with various folk, even making capodistria my enemy (who I’m immensely attracted to, of course). It’s rather amusing.

During a lull in the conversation, I visit the GNE wiki. I learn how it works, add myself to players, and browse a bit. In recent changes, I click on AOLization. The word seems to describe the effect on chat of those who take things too seriously (whatever that means), but I have a disturbing thought.

This is a game that never ends, of course. Sort of like the real world. So how do I want to be known in this little microcosm? The sex goddess thing will probably get old in about two days. I don’t want to be (or be known as) that ditzy sex-obsessed girl. Perhaps more importantly, I don’t want GNE to be a ditzy sex-obsessed game.

We all determine the direction the game will take by our actions in it. If I want this game to be fun, interesting, and diverse, I had better work to make it that way. That doesn’t exclude flirting, of course, but I don’t want flirting to be my sole contribution to GNE. I can help shape a better world than that.

Just as I would in the real world, I need to ask myself what face I want to present and what kind of impact I want to make in GNE. I would ask my fellow GNEwbies to ask themselves the same questions I did: what sort of place do I want this to be? How can I work to make it so?

I’m Sarafina Pekkala, and I’m a GNEwbie.

as Sarafina Pekkala said on October 16, 2003 08:43 AM | Comments (0)



Click dismiss to see a screenshot of the meadows and the effect of the sparkle powder (pretty!).

Or view all new items.

as Mina said on October 14, 2003 05:27 PM | Comments (0)

GNEw to you

Hello, my name is striatic and I may be GNEw to you.

Or maybe not. Afterall, I've met plenty of people over the past week or so. Enough to be invited to write this nifty little article about my first week in GNE.

Mina asked me to throw down some comments regarding my trials and tribulations, and so I shall.

My first impressions of the GNE community :

Wow, not to sound hyperbolic, but the overall GNE community is a very interesting lot. Miasorella [who was on the prototype] greeted me just about as soon as I launched the chat and oriented me very well. Although she wasn't able to answer all my questions, she pointed me towards Caterina [a dev], who most certainly could. This kind of welcome is just terrific for any GNEwbie, and something that I hope continues well into GNE's development.

Or why GNEwbies are cool :

More than just hoping this generosity continued, I wanted to help people ease into the environment myself. I started off by helping those wandering into the chat, but quickly realized that creating a little structure in which to do this would be a good idea. Jelly, fresh off an invite, suggested that maybe an ORG was in order - so we went about structuring one. Thusly, GNEwbie Boogie was born.

As it turns out, the people coming into GNE are as friendly and interesting as the ones who are already here. This bodes well for the future of the community, methinks.

Or why Ersatz Matt is cool :

Speaking to the future is a big part of what we wanted to accomplish through GNEwbie boogie. The structure of the ORG is such that all members are mandated to leave it after two months in order to ensure that it remains 'By GNEwbies, For GNEwbies'. This factor will hopefully allow new players to see that there is a clear path towards responsibility and leadership. It may also push the older GNEwbies to integrate the members who are joining for the first time into the system, because the clock is ticking.

Who's making the clock? Why Ersatz Matt of course. Matt volunteered his services to make a webpage that will keep track of how much time in the ORG everyone has left. This AP will remain in use of the ORG even after his two month term is up.

This is the kind of experimental, forward thinking that typifies many in our community. We all know that this could blow up in our faces .. but that's part of the fun, finding out what's possible and impossible in this realm.

Or why Outis is cool:

One of the things that is possible here is intense collaborative effort. Outis is all about this kind of collaboration, and GNEXUS is all about that collaboration. GNEXUS is a wiki, a kind of communally edited encyclopedia of all things GNE. It is still embryonic right now, but fits very well into our GNEwbie ORG. It will allow us to link into important information relating to the game, and also help edit that information to suit our needs GNEwbie Boogie already has an entry, as you might have already noticed. If we all put in an entry or two, as Outis has mentioned - we can have a very large and comprehensive wiki in short order. It just takes a little involvement.

Or why Capodistria is cool :

Getting people involved is important.

The most frequently asked questions of new members in our ORG is "What's the game going to be like?". Nothing explains this as quickly and clearly as a screen capture of the prototype.

Capodistria put together a simple listing of a few of these captures, and our ORG quickly went about distributing his link to our membership. Many told me that this made the game seem 'that much closer' for all of them. Again, his initiative and resources in putting things together - and our ORGs efforts in spreading the word really benefited the mood around the chat.


I might mention the Outis and Capodistria are not even members of our group, nor can they be - and yet the initiative they have shown benefits us. I hope I have explained why they are cool as effectively as possible, because it makes my life a whole lot easier. Hopefully I am helping them out as well. This is the kind of attitude that will make our time in GNE that much better.

My first experiences in GNE have been overwhelmingly good, and I hope they continue. I know there will be disappointments, but I am even looking forward to some of those, oddly.

So until then...

as striatic said on October 09, 2003 06:09 AM | Comments (0)